Why High Ph At Nigiht

Beau is hosting the January Meeting this coming Saturday the 14th at 6PM.  It will be BYOB as well as a snack to share and raffle items are always welcome.  It has been requested that there be “NO SHOES” on the carpet due to it being a whitish color.

He doesn’t have a tank to view but we will have plenty to discuss in hopes that it will get the NEW YEAR off to a good start.  The annual membership fees are due, so now would be a good time to get them in to our Treasurer Stacey Hahn.   Fees are $20 per individual or $25 per family

Attendance was low at the election meeting in November and no votes were taken at December’s meeting so we have decided to take votes for anyone that didn’t get the opportunity in November and will be attending this meeting.  
We will add the votes to November’s ballots and the announcement will be made during the meeting so we can go forward.
NOMINATIONS:
President:  Jim & Nacho
V. President: Ed, Bo & Daniel Leigey
Treasurer: Stacey
Secretary: Carmen & Angie

Let’s hope the New Year brings new members, returning members and new ideas.  The club is always willing to take suggestions to get the most out of the hobby we all enjoy.

Please PM Nate C. by clicking here for directions if you are not a club member.  

Club members can click here to go to the club member only forum to get directions.

Hope to see you all there!

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[Zulreef]

Why is Ph high at night? I've got dat at 8.17 and night at 8.39.

Thanks
Zul

[angelscrx]

You can get PH swings if you don't have a light on over your sump on an opposite schedule than you tank lights.

[Zulreef]

Angel,

Yes, My lights on the sump are opposite the tank.

Zul

[Rico]

Zul,

The PH in a tank will normally climb during the day and peak at night just before the lights go out.  This is due to the corals using the availalbe light all day and the process of growing corals contributes to the increase in PH.  Typically the PH will be the lowest in the morning before the lights come on because the lack of light has allowed it to drop.  This is why a lot of people run their refugium lights on a schedule that is opposite of the tank lighting.  Personally I run my refugium lights 24 hrs a day as I found I got a lot better calupra growth and turning them off durning the day did not provide a benefit.  Some people will claim that exposing calurpa to light constantly may cause it to go a-sexual and potentially crash.  I have never experienced this from my lights in the 6 years of doing it this way.  Another way to combat the  nightly PH drop is to drip Kalkwasser in the tank at night after the lights go out.  While this will help with PH, my experience was that I was using too strong of a Kalkwasser mixture and my sand bed solidified.  That was early in my learning days and I would do it again on a simple system, just be more careful in the mixing of Kaldwasser.

Rick

[Rico]

I should add that even when lighting the refugium at night, you will still get PH swings if the size of the refugium is small in comparison to the tank.  A small refugium just can't keep the PH pumped up when compared to a large tank.

Rick

[Ed]

It is my belief that your lights on your refugeum produce oxygen for your animals in your main tank.   Oxygen replaces the CO2 (dioxide) stabilizing the PH.   I need a lesson here, someone correct me if I am wrong please... :? Ed

[The Apprentice]

I have read the same Ed. I belive what you said is right . Zul mine will swing that much as well. Don't let it bother you I belive it to be normal just Like Rick posted Your system is even beter that mine. My Ph will be 7.99 in the morning and by the time the lights go out on my tank ph will be 8.19-8.15 then it will drop to 7.9- 7.95 in the mornings some times i have been adding Kent buffer with my demin makeup to the tank at night and this will keep it up around 8.05 to 8.1 during the night.  I too like Rick run My Refugium lights on all the time However i don't have calupra in mine I have the Chetomorph.  (Green spagetti looking algae) Kevin sold me my start and he claims It won't go sexual like the Clarapa Can.
But I was told If you have calupra that you wanted to run your lights all the time to keep it from going sexual so i am a little confused??

It is my belief that your lights on your refugeum produce oxygen for your animals in your main tank.   Oxygen replaces the CO2 (dioxide) stabilizing the PH.   I need a lesson here, someone correct me if I am wrong please... :? Ed

[The Apprentice]

Zul when i started my first Refugium i only had the medium sized CPR hang on the back hear is what it looks like:
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idProduct=CR1733

And i found What Rick said to be true it would only hold my Ph From 8.15 @ night to 7.89 buy the mornings So I added a Miracal Mud Refugium to it as well I also did this because i had a Mandrin and i was worried about keeeping enough live stock for Him to eat ( Copods & Ampipods) and hear is a link to the M.M. EcoSystem:
http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/reefugium.html
I went with the 200 model and it has help Ph swings a little However it is a great Bug Making factory ask ED & Rod they have seen the swimmers!@

I should add that even when lighting the refugium at night, you will still get PH swings if the size of the refugium is small in comparison to the tank.  A small refugium just can't keep the PH pumped up when compared to a large tank.

Rick

[Les]

Is there a benefit for keeping the ph as constant as possible? (on day and night shifting)
Or is it very detrimental to the corals and fishes?
I personally light my fuge opposite of the main tank, but due to not having a ph monitor I don’t bother to test at different times of the day.

[The Apprentice]

This is a very good Point Les! Belive me I have relly worked hard at tring to do this. And i haven't been able to do this . First cycling the lights and then adding Buffer to my make up at night to doing both and I havent been able to keep it Constant :evil:  However I have been able to reduce the swings a little

Is there a benefit for keeping the ph as constant as possible? (on day and night shifting)
Or is it very detrimental to the corals and fishes?
I personally light my fuge opposite of the main tank, but due to not having a ph monitor I don’t bother to test at different times of the day.

[Rico]

Ed,

You are right about the oxygen, plants will convert CO2 to Oxygen as part of the growing process (that is why we need to keep plants growing on earth).  The same process occurs in the reef tank.  CO2 is acidic and causes PH to drop, so by converting CO2 to oxygen you are removing CO2 and raising the PH.    

This acidic property is why we use CO2 in a calcium reactor to dissolve the gravel media, and also why we should monitor PH closely when using a calcium reactor.

Les,

Because the PH scale is Logarithmic a small change in reading is actually a very large change in property.  We try to not stress the coral and fish by keeping the PH swings to a minimum.  In my own recent experince with the old 155, I had some severe PH swings when things were not going well, the animals survived but were not happy and the corals slimed a lot.  

As an FYI, if someone accidently overdoses Kalk and raises the PH to high, you can quickly bring the PH down by adding distilled vinegar..

With the 155 tank, my PH would drop to 7.95 at night and climb to 8.20 by the end of the evening.  Now with the larger refugium on the 240, my PH is 8.25 at night and drops to 8.10 in the morning.

With a PH controller, calcium reactor and kalkwasser reactor you will be able to set up the system to mainatin you PH in any range you desire.  When the PH is low, it will turn on the kalkwasser reactor to raise PH and when low, will turn on the calcium reactor to lower PH.

Rick

[Zulreef]

Zul,

The PH in a tank will normally climb during the day and peak at night just before the lights go out.  This is due to the corals using the availalbe light all day and the process of growing corals contributes to the increase in PH.  Typically the PH will be the lowest in the morning before the lights come on because the lack of light has allowed it to drop.  This is why a lot of people run their refugium lights on a schedule that is opposite of the tank lighting.  Personally I run my refugium lights 24 hrs a day as I found I got a lot better calupra growth and turning them off durning the day did not provide a benefit.  Some people will claim that exposing calurpa to light constantly may cause it to go a-sexual and potentially crash.  I have never experienced this from my lights in the 6 years of doing it this way.  Another way to combat the  nightly PH drop is to drip Kalkwasser in the tank at night after the lights go out.  While this will help with PH, my experience was that I was using too strong of a Kalkwasser mixture and my sand bed solidified.  That was early in my learning days and I would do it again on a simple system, just be more careful in the mixing of Kaldwasser.

Rick

Ok.... Thanks for the info


Rick,

Morning at 8.32 before light on , then VHO on at 8.16-8.19, after MH on at 8.32, MH off and VHO on at 8.22, All off light at 8.39, but still light the refuguim.

Here is my light scheduel.

VHO (ON) AT 8AM
VHO (OFF) AT 10.30AM
MH (ON) AT 10AM
MH (OFF) AT 8PM
VHO (ON) AT 6.30PM
VHO (OFF) AT 10PM
REFUGUIM (ON) AT 4PM
REFUGIUM (OFF) AT 9am



Zul

[angelscrx]

On the Cualerpa ot only goes asexual if the lights get cycled on and off.  BY keeping the lights on you keep the cualerpa from getting busy with its self.  The bad part about cualerpa going asexual is the toxins it releases into the water.  When this happens it can wipe out your tank practically overnight depending on the amount of cualerpa in the fuge.  I run my fuge lights 24/7 and have not had a problem.  I only test my ph in the mornings to get a consistent reading.  

Rick is correct on fuge size as well.  If your fuge is too small it won't be able to keep up with your tank.

[VickiG]

Zul,

...Some people will claim that exposing calurpa to light constantly may cause it to go a-sexual and potentially crash.  ...
Rick

Rick,
Someone (sales person at one of the Spokane stores) told us that "spaghetti" calerpa was best because it "doesn't ever go asexual"... have you heard of this?  Just wondering.

[VickiG]

... So I added a Miracal Mud Refugium to it as well I also did this because i had a Mandrin and i was worried about keeeping enough live stock for Him to eat ( Copods & Ampipods) and hear is a link to the M.M. EcoSystem:
http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/reefugium.html
I went with the 200 model and it has help Ph swings a little However it is a great Bug Making factory ask ED & Rod they have seen the swimmers!@


Hey, this is good to hear...I've been thinking of trying this miracle mud in our 'fuge when we set everything up.  

Speaking of which, we ordered our sump today...so we will actually have some real equipment soon...not just books!  I am so excited!!