phos and calcium issues!!!

Laura and Jim will be hosting the May meeting this Saturday the 12th and it will be the usual of food, drinks, raffle and fun.
 
Doors will be open at 6:00 pm for social talk and the meeting will start at 7:00.  Parking gets a little tight and the city says you can't park on 4th but there is a parking lot a block away.   Meeting is usually held in the backyard so feel free to bring your favorite lawn chair, weather permitting of course.

If you need address/directions, contact a club member.

Best if you park at Mini Mall (where the spaghetti establishment use to be)
 
You will get to see his new frag tank set up in the making.
 
Hope to see you there!

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[luvnsalt]

Hi all.
Ok, so Steve at Coral reef did a water test for me and came up with a couple issues.  :oops: First one is my calcium is very low. About 295, so my question is "what kind and where" do I get this? Also my Strong something is low. ( I have no idea what this is or how to say it let alone spell it.) My iodine is also low. He said that the last two were not as bad as the calcium. He also said the iodine I bought was worthless.....go figure. So, if anyone has any thoughts on these, I would appreciate it. Next issue is my phospherous is high at .05 and I am hoping you have ideas on this as well. Thanks. :roll:  

[Ed]

Calcium can be added by dosing.  I recommend Kent turbo Calcium. I am going to get a Calcium reactor next week end.  If everything goes as planned and it is set up I will help you out with additives.   I also have Iodine.  I have Strontium also.   What did he say about your nitrates? amonia? Alkalinity and calcium balance each other out.  What is your alkalinity.   Give me a call and I will try to explain.
Ed

[luvnsalt]

He was very quick on the phone. He said that my strontium (thank you) and iodine are low. But did not give me specifics. :?  He only said my calcium and phos numbers. He also said my standard ammonia is about .25. That is all I got.

[Ron]

I am as new to this hobby as you are, so do not pay any attention to anything I say.  Having said that, I want to pass on something I got off another forum.  I was also having low calcium levels (about 320-350)when I started.  Someone asked me what kind of salt I used.  When I said I used Instant Ocean, he said that 350 was normal.  He said that the salts acted as buffers and that each maintained a certain level.  I switched to Oceanic as he recommended and have been maintaining about 450 ever since.  Again, I would not take any action based on anything I say.  Maybe some of the more experienced folks could confirm or deny what I was told.  I would be interested in knowing what brand of salt you use.

Ron

[luvnsalt]

Thanks Ron. I am still on my first bucket of Coralife. I am planning on switching after this bucket is all gone. I just don't know to what, yet. Thanks for the insight.
Dashia

[Ron]

Let's hope some of our more knowledgeable friends will comment on this.  I would be very interested to hear what they have to say about the different salts and how they effect the Ca level.

Ron

[luvnsalt]

ditto!!!!

[Les]

Lovnsalt,
If your tank is only a fish and not a reef then I wouldn't worry about the calcium levels. (only the stonys use it, and coraline algea will grow anyway) I used to use Corallife and also Instant Ocean and have sinced switched to Oceanic. I also am not one to dose very often, I prefer to maintain levels with water changes, not additives.
When using a quality salt mix, and doing bi-monthly water changes, my reef tank is doing great. I know that I don't follow the "recommened" rules of reef keeping, but the results speak for themselves.

[angelscrx]

I too use the oceanic and mine stays around 400 and I dose more calcium for my corals and clams.  I have used IO and I had the hardest time keeping Calcium up.   Much easier with the IOO and more people recommend it.  You don't really need to add strontium unless you plane to test for it.  Too much strontium can be bad for your tank.  If you have a lot of SPS then you can add it but use the beginner recommended dosages.  And for the iodine I think it was mentioned a while ago that you don't have to add that either but if you do two drops a week are more than enough in my 55g.  HTH

[The Apprentice]

Dashia I am doing the same thing that Les is doing just tring to maintain my chemisty with water changes (small ones ) each week I try to change out 30-35 gallons in my 150 tank with a 40 gallon sump and i change out 15-20 gallons in my 75 tank but i use only Oceanic I too started with Instant Ocean (My first 5 gallon pail ) and after that Kevin @ Aquatic Dreems talked me into using it :wink: . My only problem and it hasent hurt the tank is I have a canstant lower Ph of 7.8 to 8.1 during the day but my calcuim is always at 480-500 on my salifert testing  So get a small amount from Petsmart and give it a try you will like how it mixes up alot easyer than Instant Ocean..HTH...Jeff

Lovnsalt,
If your tank is only a fish and not a reef then I wouldn't worry about the calcium levels. (only the stonys use it, and coraline algea will grow anyway) I used to use Corallife and also Instant Ocean and have sinced switched to Oceanic. I also am not one to dose very often, I prefer to maintain levels with water changes, not additives.
When using a quality salt mix, and doing bi-monthly water changes, my reef tank is doing great. I know that I don't follow the "recommened" rules of reef keeping, but the results speak for themselves.

[Ed]

I am willing to share oppinions on what I think is targets for Calcium and Alkalinity.   I believe like Les stated above and also Jeff,   The easiest way to maintain your Calcium is by doing water changes if you do not have a large population of SPS.   SPS (Small Polyp Stonies) and LPS (Long Polyp Stonies) require a good level of calcium to survive usually.  
My targets I set for my calcium by dosing are 400-420 ppm.    Its gets a little touchey if you bump your calcium too fast by dosing.   Things like powerheads start clogging due ionic exchange.   If you can maintain your Alkalinity 2.8-3.5 is  a good target in my oppinion.  Alkalinity and Calcium balance each other out.   If you have too much Alkalinity your Calcium will pecipitate out faster.   I am asking those with questions about Natural Seawater to look at the Websites Library.  I think Matt and Rick and Mike and etc  have the NSW levels posted in there.   Things that help maintain calcium levels  are a Calcium Reactor, Kalk (lime water) reactors, Dosing Kalk (lime water), water changes with salts like Oceanic.
or dosing additives (Kent turbo Calcium and other calcium additives).   I am hoping we can take one step at time.   I do not want anyone be scared off by thinking too hard in advance.   Water Changes are a simple way to balance things out.    Please mix your water externally, in a bucket with powerhead and heater.   When temperature and salintiy match your tank, then add it to your sump or add it slowly to top of your tank,  Moderation will not scare your animals as much.    If you decide to test your water after doing this, please wait at least 4 hours for things to settle in your tank.    Magnesium will often come from Water changes.  You will find at times all you will need to add if you have a large coral population is a little strontium.     I hope this helps.  
Here is a little trick I learned years ago, If you are worried about Iodine. You can feed your tangs Nori and your tangs will produce iodine in the water.   Iodine is beneficial for your shrimp, and crabs to help them molt thier shells.  Iodine is also used to treat bacteria infections outside the tank.  It is used as medication or pretreat for new corals outside before adding to your tank.  You do not want to overdose Iodine so its very important to follow instructions on bottle.   Iodine and Iodate are two terms I am asking you to look up as a lesson to your self.   Good luck and talk to you soon.
Ed

[Nate C.]

We've been using instant ocean in our 75 gal. and have been maintaining about 400 ppm for calcium using Kent 2-part calcium.  (about 20 ml each).  We too maintain trace elements such as Strontium by doing small water changes each week as well as some additions.  The phosphate problem can be helped significantly by these small water changes as well.  No better way to get rid of them than to just remove them from the tank and replace with "clean" water.  We typically do about 6 gal change once every week to two weeks.  Typically dose calcium after each change as well, Iodine every couple weeks, and then the Salifert "trace soft" and "trace hard" additives once a month or so for the corals.

[Nate C.]

We've been using instant ocean in our 75 gal. and have been maintaining about 400 ppm for calcium using Kent 2-part calcium.  (about 20 ml each).  We too maintain trace elements such as Strontium by doing small water changes each week as well as some additions.  The phosphate problem can be helped significantly by these small water changes as well.  No better way to get rid of them than to just remove them from the tank and replace with "clean" water.  We typically do about 6 gal change once every week to two weeks.  Typically dose calcium after each change as well, Iodine every couple weeks, and then the Salifert "trace soft" and "trace hard" additives once a month or so for the corals.

[Rico]

Dashia,

Knowing that your tank is really not populated with very many corals at this time, I would not worry much about the calcium, strontium or iodine.  I would be more concerned about getting the tank to stabilize and have "0" Nitrates & "0" amonia.  Once your tank settles in and you start to add a few corals, then start to think about how you will maintain the elements the corals need.

Don't get too worried about this stuff now, it will only drive you to drink (saltwater that is  :lol: )

As for the rest of the group posting, Instant Ocean salt has been around for years and proven itself to be a high quality salt that is always consistant in the mix of elements between different batches of salt.  Agreed, it may be a bit low on the CA, but that is the only weakness.

On the other hand, Oceanic Salt is the new kid on the block and while it does have elevated levels of CA, it also has extreemely high levels of Magnesium as well as some Phospate content. If you do a full test of the Oceanic Salt, you will find that it is not nearly as close to natural seawater as Instant Ocean is.  And since Phospate is food for algae....we all want to feed our nusiance algae and grow more :evil:  right?

There is a good thread on Reeffrontiers about this from DonW.

I have to admit I used the Oceanic in the new tank, but I used IO in my old tanks for 9 years and will most likely switch back and just rely on the CA reactor to keep the CA levels elevated, especially since I don't like to do water changes.

Rick

[angelscrx]

Excellent posts Rick and Ed, very informative.